Watch on YouTube · Follow on Spotify · All episodes
In Episode 36 of the Hustle & Heat Podcast, we sit down with former NFL running back Steve Avery for a conversation about football, life, and the experiences that shaped his journey.
Steve shares stories from his playing career, what it takes to compete at the professional level, and the lessons he carried with him beyond the football field. We dive into the highs, challenges, mindset, and behind-the-scenes realities of life in professional football.
Hustle & Heat Podcast Ep36
Guest: Steve Avery, Former NFL Running Back
Transcript from the YouTube captions, with names and places corrected. It may contain errors.
0:00 What’s up guys and welcome back to another episode of Hustle and Heat Podcast. This is episode number 36 and we have a special guest today, an ex
0:08 former NFL player, Mr. Steve Avery. Steve, welcome to the podcast. We appreciate you coming and um our honor to have you on.
0:18 Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you did for a living.
0:21 Yeah, it’s an honor to be here. Um well, now I’m a former National Football League player, businessman. Um, you
0:30 know, I’m in the financial services industry. Married, four kids, been married 30 years. Uh, four kids.
0:38 Um, two of them still in college, one in grad school, one in undergrad. Other two daughters are the oldest.
0:47 They’re in the working world. Um, yeah. Yeah. Live up in Sarasota. Nice. Happily married.
0:55 There you go. So, you went to Northern Michigan University? Yeah, I went to Northern Michigan.
1:00 Tell us a little bit about your experience over there.
1:03 Yeah. So, I uh I was a walk-on. Um almost a high school dropout.
1:08 I’m pretty talented musician. I actually played in a rock band and I was in
1:15 sports. And um so sports kind of started taking off when I was a senior in high school and I walked on. I got a an
1:23 opportunity to be a walk-on at Northern Michigan.
1:26 and um really against all odds ended up getting a full scholarship and then uh I
1:33 started all four years and uh broke all the rushing records there and did you really?
1:40 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, was like I said for me um you know life you’re just trying to
1:46 make it every single day but um I was a pretty good athlete and some doors opened up but it was really because of a
1:54 couple coaches that went out of the way to really give me a chance. So um yeah and then I ended up breaking all the
2:02 records there and never thought I’d like a dream. I mean I never thought I’d get to that point.
2:07 Nice. did pretty well and went into the NFL. [clears throat] So after uh Michigan University, you went to the Houston Oilers.
2:15 Yep. I uh so I so I got invited to the NFL combine. This is back when like Troy
2:22 Aikman and Deion Sanders was were rookies and and uh here I am, right? Division 2 kid, small college. get invited to the
2:31 combine and u this is before it was like a big Hollywood event but I was there when Deion when Deion ran that infamous 40-yard
2:39 dash and um he ran the 40 and he had a limousine waiting outside the stadium and he just kept running nobody saw him
2:47 again he ran the fastest 40 in the really in the history of mankind [laughter] and and
2:54 uh yeah so I I got a call from Jerry Jerry Glanville go the Houston Oilers uh right towards the end of the draft.
3:03 This is back when they had like 12 rounds and um and he said, you know, hey, we’d like you to come down here and I thought I was getting drafted, but he
3:12 said, no, we want you to be a free agent. And I gave it a shot and I ended up making the team. Yeah. So, that’s where I started with Houston.
3:19 Nice. Tell us about your experience in Houston.
3:22 Yeah. So, you know, you come from a small college and um you got all these big college kids. It was very
3:30 intimidating, but one thing I knew how to do is just work hard, get in shape. So, I my goal I
3:37 remember showing up in camp, it’s like I I got to show up. I got to be the best in shape. The only thing I thought is if I can give a good first impression,
3:45 you know, that’ll be kind of one step in the right direction. Um because you know you I don’t know if you remember the name Warren Moon but there’s some
3:54 incredible athletes there. Um Heisman Trophy winner Mike Rozier was one of the running backs and Lorenzo White, Alonzo
4:01 Highsmith, Allen Pinkett. And then you got a small college kid like me trying to make a roster spot. So
4:09 my whole thing was just be dumb enough to believe, smart enough to execute. And uh that’s what I did. Yeah. ended up making the team against Yeah.
4:20 How many seasons did you play for the uh Oilers?
4:23 Well, it’s kind of like a a partial season if you want to know that whole story. Uh you know, the NFL journeyman
4:32 like me. So, I I get I make the final cut. I suit up for uh game one against the Vikings.
4:41 And Mike Rozier was a, you know, Heisman Trophy winning running back and he was kind of their star running back, but he was kind of a contract hold out and um
4:51 he uh he finally signed his contract and they wanted me to go on the practice squad then. So, but in order to go from
4:59 the active roster to the practice squad back then, they’d have to cut you and you go on what they call the waiver wire. and Dallas and Kansas City were
5:09 both interested and I decided to finish the season with the Chiefs and that’s back when Marty Schottenheimer was the head coach, Bill Cowher was a
5:18 defensive coordinator, Tony Dungy was coaching defensive backs and Bruce Arians actually was my running back’s coach and
5:27 uh so I think about that that coaching staff was amazing. But so I ended up kind of finishing the season in Kansas
5:34 City, but you know, not not very productive for me.
5:37 Nice. So tell us a little bit about like the NFL journey. Like when it comes to training camp and practice and stuff like that, how rigorous and how difficult is it?
5:45 Yeah. Um, back then it was about beating your body into the ground in the offseason and getting in shape. And so I
5:54 was very old school. Um, and I would follow a very regimented uh, you know, off season, you know, I
6:03 mean, some some days I’d be running a 100 sprints, you know, tens, 20s, 30s, 40s, quarter miles, you know, everything
6:10 everything for me was like always trying to be the best in shape in my position and that would at least give me a chance to make a roster because I was, you
6:18 know, I was typically a bubble guy. You know, I’m not the big superstar on the team, but somebody who is going to do well on special teams, somebody that
6:26 fulfills that role that a lot of coaches look for. You got to have those guys that are willing to kind of do what it takes on, you know, special teams is not
6:35 easy like people think. A lot of people are afraid to run down there full speed and blow people up. [laughter] Yeah. They don’t even do that anymore.
6:43 Yeah. And I was uh what they called the wedge buster, which they kind of banned from the NFL, but you literally were a
6:50 human missile. And uh um so all that preparation was just Yeah. Just work out
6:58 hard. Um yeah, just hard work. That’s all I knew how to do was just hard work.
7:02 So as a human missile, you ever hit your target? [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Like for me, um, like I said, that that really gets coaches
7:11 fired up when you can do well on special teams, you know, and you’re not the, you know, the the premier running back, you know, you got to be you got to have
7:19 fulfill some role. And so for me, that was my way in, you know. Did you enjoy it? I did. Yeah.
7:27 Yeah.
7:28 Yeah. And back then, you know, heck, we’d even have little bets. You know, the guy next to you’ be like, I bet you 100 bucks I’ll be down there first and
7:35 make the tackle or [laughter] It was a lot of fun.
7:39 Do you think the game has changed a lot since you played?
7:42 Yeah, it’s changed a lot. Uh the rules change. I can remember every year before a season you get
7:50 together with somebody comes in from the head, you know, league headquarters and talks about all the updated rules. But I
7:57 remember guys like Rod Woodson, he gets so frustrated because every year they would change the rules. What a quarterback, our defensive back, it would just keep getting less and less.
8:06 you could touch the guy less and it’s like man how are we supposed to play and uh but every year you would have to adapt to something there’d be all some
8:14 sort of new rule or like this whole new thing with a kickoff I don’t get it man cuz um
8:20 basically eliminated my job it did right yeah cuz I’d go flying down there and make tackles so yeah it’s it’s a lot
8:28 different you know it’s I still enjoy the game I do like the technology for help preserving your body.
8:36 Um, you know, I’ve had, you know, I was kind of in that era where they were just discovering about CTE and concussions
8:45 and things like that. So, um, do you feel like you’ve ever like um experienced um um symptoms of like any of those things?
8:56 You know, I think if you ask my wife probably she’d say uh
9:02 yes. um you know, but now I feel like I’ve been very fortunate uh you know, in
9:09 terms of baseline assessment testing and all that, like I think I’ve done pretty well in terms of uh you know, being able
9:17 to handle because when you go into the NFL, it’s a very intense environment and then when it’s over, that intensity doesn’t leave you. And but it doesn’t
9:26 bode well in terms of a marriage and raising kids. And if you don’t calibrate
9:33 that, it makes it a little rough to adjust into the real world. And um how difficult was it?
9:40 It was difficult like cuz I wasn’t a physically abusive guy to my family, but um you were abusive on the field. I was
9:48 abusive on the field, but you know, somebody you’re trying to correct something in the house to the level of intensity that you deal with things to
9:56 make sure there’s peace. Uh you don’t realize that people are scared [laughter] and you’re not doing anything wrong. You’re just trying to control
10:04 everything. But that was an interesting uh adaptation. But um you know some other guys like I you know
10:12 I don’t know if you saw that movie Concussion but um one of my roommates was Justin Strzelczyk who ended up taking his
10:19 own life and uh committing suicide and they found out you know post-mortem that he had CTE but I remember
10:27 what position did he play? He was an offensive lineman, just a stud of a just a great athlete. But, um, you know,
10:34 there were days he’d call me up on the phone, and this is after I was done playing, but I I think I made a pretty good adjustment from, you know, the
10:43 the dream, the fantasy world to the real world. And it wasn’t easy, but I felt like I was adjusting. And I think a lot of guys saw that I was doing a pretty
10:51 good job. But he would call me up just saying, “Man, I just wish I had your life, and I wish I had this. which you know and I I didn’t understand all the
10:59 agony that he was experiencing. I was just trying to adapt, you know, get my feet back on the ground. But some guys
11:06 didn’t have as easy of a time, but he ended up just losing his mind and um how long after he finished playing?
11:16 Um yeah, not too long for him. It was maybe a couple years after. Really? Yeah, that’s sad. Yeah.
11:24 Yeah, it is sad, man. And um but seeing that movie, you know, a lot of those guys that played characters and you
11:31 know, that was all in Pittsburgh, you know, and I knew Alec Baldwin played Julian Bailes. I knew him personally. And
11:39 you know, it was very interesting to to realize like what era I grew up in was when they started really discovering
11:46 kind of some of the ramifications of the violence of the game, you know? But I’d go back and do it all over again.
11:53 I know you I love the violence of the game. He said, “Give me give me the kickoffs back.” Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s a warrior. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
12:01 Um, d***. Yeah.
12:06 That’s cool. So, what was it like being on a team? Like, you know, obviously football’s a business, but also it’s a team. So, was it was it easy getting
12:13 close to uh your pl your teammates and stuff like that? You guys become like a family kind of thing?
12:19 Yeah, you do. How did it go with like people coming and going? Cuz obviously people get cut, people get drafted, signed.
12:25 Yeah, I’ve been cut about seven times in the NFL. So, and then you get brought back. But, um, I’ll [clears throat] never forget when I made the final roster cut with the Steelers.
12:38 And here we are, first day of practice, regular season. And, uh, I’m stretching.
12:44 This is back when Three Rivers Stadium was there. And we used to practice on an old little 50-yard field where people could stop on the highway and just watch
12:52 over and watch you practice like, you know. So, uh, but I’ll never forget I’m stretching, you know, kind of doing
12:59 that hurdler stretch and Ron Erhardt, who was the offensive coordinator. I just see his face pop over my head. He goes, “Well,
13:08 you made it. Don’t screw it up.” you know, [laughter] and and uh you know, because the coaches, you have to be
13:15 accountable and dependable every single day. And um so that was my mission. It’s just I didn’t want anybody having to
13:22 worry about me doing my job. And um and that’s again, you just have to work hard at doing that. But yeah, once you’re in
13:30 the fold, um you know, the defensive guys like you a little bit better now
13:36 that the preseason’s over and and uh you start, you know, having relationships and we would have team socials where we’d get together Thursdays, you know,
13:45 play some cards, play some pool, and those are great memories, you know. Um at a barbecue joint, man. Yeah.
13:52 Yeah. Clark Bar and Grill back in Pittsburgh. That’s pretty cool.
13:56 Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. So those are the things I miss the most. I I you know I love my brothers, my teammates. You still talk to some of them?
14:04 Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All the time.
14:07 That’s cool. Do you ever go to football games now or you still watch?
14:12 Um no I have season tickets with the Steelers, but I let my friends use the tickets and um you know I haven’t been to a game in a while.
14:20 You watch the game like these guys are sissies. Like what’s that like?
14:24 Yeah. I uh he said, “Yeah, I’m like, man, what are they playing?
14:29 Patty cakes out there.” But um you know, I think the game these, you know, people have gotten faster, stronger. These hits
14:38 are incredibly violent nowadays, too. I mean, um yeah, I I think it’s amazing how almost less equals more when you’re
14:47 training and how you train. And I can’t compete with all that because me it was all about just ground and pound. But I think, you know, they they are getting
14:56 smarter and yeah, it it doesn’t Yeah, I think the game is still as awesome, but I’m definitely old school in my head.
15:05 What was your favorite memory on the field?
15:08 Um, well, my uh my touchdown against the Jaguars.
15:14 I’ll send you that video clip. Um, but uh, you know, as a guy like me as a backup,
15:22 one thing Bill Cowher was very staunch on was like, even, you know, if you’re a second teamer, you better know your stuff almost better than the first
15:30 teamers because if I got a call on you, I don’t want to have to question that you’re going to know what to do. And uh, so for me, it was making sure that if if
15:39 that number ever popped up, you know, and I’m a starter, I better be ready.
15:43 But that happened. John L. Williams um was not able to start that game against the Jaguars and this is the very first time
15:51 uh they just entered the league. They just became a National Football League team and it’s the first time we went down there and they had like five catches and a touchdown and it was all
15:59 over ESPN and I thought that was pretty cool.
16:01 Yeah, it’s like a dream come true. Like you know Chris Berman kind of commentating on you know Steve Avery you know I’m like whoa. But, you
16:09 know, the the ironic thing was is the same time I was I scored a touchdown, there was another athlete named Steve
16:17 Avery playing for the Atlanta Braves who’s pitching in the World Series. And so, they kind of had this like play on word like Steve Avery relegated from the
16:25 bullpin, you know? I’m like, wait a minute. No, I’m my own Steve Avery. I’m not the Steve Avery. Two Steve Averies.
16:31 Yeah. Well, now there’s three. I mean, I’m a I’m an interesting Google search cuz if you Google me, you’ll find Steve Avery, the murderer on Netflix.
16:41 [laughter]
16:42 Who the hell is Steve Avery?
16:43 You’ll find Steve Avery, the the pitcher of the Braves. And then you kind of deeper in the search engine, you’ll find me, the uh [laughter] deeper in the
16:51 search, you’ll find the fullback for the Steelers. Yeah.
16:55 So, I think Yeah, I think God’s having a fun time with my name. Yeah, he is. He really is. Isn’t it funny?
17:03 So, you were in Green Bay before Pittsburgh. Yep.
17:07 But Pittsburgh was your longest like like long. Yeah. Yeah. Um what did you learn from Green Bay?
17:14 Um again, for me it was just about hard work, but um I was there kind of in that transition period when the head coach Lindy Infante was getting let go and
17:23 they brought in Mike Holmgren and um and that’s when they brought up Brett Favre. So, it was a fun time to be
17:30 there. Um, I had unfortunate offensive lineman landing on the back of my leg um
17:38 in one of the preseason uh practices and it just kind of messed up my opportunity. But I was doing I thought I was doing pretty well. Michael Holmgren
17:47 really um things started working out there because I had played in the World League in the spring and then came up to
17:54 Green Bay and uh it was neat being there in that whole transition. And you know what was crazy
18:01 is on that coaching staff, you had Mike Holmgren, the head coach, but then you had Andy Reid who was coaching tight ends. He was just a grunt back then. You
18:10 had Jon Gruden who was like a quality control guy, Steve Mariucci coaching the quarterbacks, Ray Rhodes
18:18 was defensive coordinator. So I I think about like man, you guys had it all. I just had an honor of being around a lot of great coaches
18:27 and uh like I said, I I was doing pretty well there, but um just had an unfortunate injury. So, so what what was Andy Reid like? Is it true he always eats cheeseburgers?
18:39 Who’s that?
18:40 Andy Reid. [laughter] I don’t you know you know what when I when I think about him back then, what I do remember is his confidence
18:49 of he knew kind of his path. like he knew that he was putting in his time, that he was working his way through the system, but he always seemed confident
18:57 like he knew he knew what he was doing as a coach, you know, but again, I was not focused on their job or anything. I just
19:05 But I I do remember and even and Jon Gruden too, the same thing like even with quality control and writing down, I
19:12 mean, he was just a grunt at the time, but he was just as intense doing his job, you know? It didn’t surprise me,
19:20 you know, that the whole Chucky syndrome he had or but he was very uh very zealous in his coaching style.
19:29 Nice. Um what was different about Pittsburgh than than Green Bay?
19:35 Um you know what, there’s a lot of similarities with the hometown feel like the the fans had a lot of access to the players in Green Bay. Um which was cool.
19:45 I enjoyed riding the bikes. like the kids would bring their bike and you could ride to the practice field. That was always a thing that was cool. And one kid would claim every player. But in
19:54 Pittsburgh, again, there was just a lot of access to the the players. And um
20:02 you know, it’s a bluecollar hardworking place. They don’t want pre- bananas, you know, and you always kind of had that feeling like if you ever thought
20:09 you were kind of like a diva or you thought you arrived, you know, they’ll kick you right out of Pittsburgh. Um, and so there was
20:17 definitely a standard there. They had, you know, six Super Bowls when I, you know, what, well, no, they had four Super Bowls when I got there. And then I
20:24 was on the team that went to Super Bowl 30 and we should have won. Uh, did you play in that game?
20:31 No, I got hurt um in a end of the year type game and I couldn’t suit up for the Super Bowl, but um I was there. I
20:40 practiced. was uh hoping I was going to be on the active roster, but it was kind of a last minute decision, right? Just my my my I had a
20:48 groin thing going on. It just wasn’t wasn’t right. So, then they uh they suited up Timmy Lester instead of me. So, but it was fun.
20:57 Did you still go to the game?
20:59 Oh, yeah. Yeah. You practice everything and went to the game. I was actually on the Tonight Show, man. Really? Yeah. What was that like?
21:06 Uh so back then you had two weeks before the Super Bowl and the first week you
21:15 practice and uh the media has kind of full access and one time we were coming off the practice field and it was like
21:23 me thickpin Levon Kirkland uh a couple other guys Kendall Gammon who’s our long snapper we’re coming off
21:31 the field and somebody’s like hey anybody want to be on the Tonight Show and we’re like sure and Uh before we know it, we’re in a limousine heading to
21:39 some place and we carry Jay Leno out on our shoulders. [laughter]
21:46 It was so much fun. And um yeah, but I practiced all week. You know, you’re you’re expecting to suit up, but um you
21:54 know, you can only have certain amount of active people on the roster, so I was there, you know, obviously the whole time, but it was fun being on the
22:00 sideline, too. I met Michael Keaton, um Vanessa Williams, S. It was just kind of, you know, I guess the benefit of not
22:08 suiting up is [laughter] you had a uh a little bit of the luxury of kind of meeting some of those other celebrities and stuff.
22:17 That’s cool, man. Yeah. Yeah.
22:19 Was Should have won that game though, man. Um Yeah, it was close. What was the score?
22:26 Crap. I don’t know. It was close. That’s all I know.
22:29 Um, we had we had two uh turnovers for touchdowns that we couldn’t overcome, but I think we lost by 10 points.
22:37 Yeah. 17 to I can’t remember. Who’d you guys play? Cowboys.
22:42 A Cowgirl. Was that Troy Aikman and Deion Sanders?
22:49 Michael Irvin. Uh, Emmitt Smith. They had a good team, but we just had we not had those turnovers, it would
22:57 have been a different game. Our defense was amazing. Um, I really felt like our offense could have done better. Felt,
23:05 you know, had we done our part, we probably would have won, but we didn’t.
23:09 As for like the players, you know, you see a lot of players that finish playing in the NFL and they go into broadcasting. Do you think that’s like a way for them to still feel involved?
23:19 Yeah.
23:19 Do you think that’s a big reason why they do it?
23:22 Yeah, I do. I think some of those guys that have that opportunity, um, you know, they they work at it though. Um, and they know the game. So, I think it’s
23:31 kind of a good situation for, you know, the network and for them. Um, but yeah,
23:39 I think the the the sad reality is, you know, 80% of the guys, you know, are married and divorced
23:47 and uh it’s just such a high attrition rate that way. Why? I think you can’t let go, you know.
23:54 I mean, even if even when you’re doing something like that, I’m sure it’s very time consuming and it’s just not conducive to uh
24:02 probably a good marriage and Yeah. stuff like that. And um Did it worked out for you though? You’ve been Yeah. Yeah. I kind of I know I looked into all that stuff, but I just that
24:10 just wasn’t my path. I uh I was more of a business guy and I wanted you know
24:18 you know I just wanted to be married one time, man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank God it’s working, huh? Yes, sir. Thank God. That’s right.
24:24 So, what do you do now? You’re you’re in business.
24:27 Yeah. Yep. I’m a certified financial planner. I work with a a group called Q3 advisors and they’re very specialized in
24:36 uh a specific type of tax strategy and financial planning process that deal with IRA millionaires, people that got a
24:44 lot of money in IAS and uh we just help them kind of dissolve their partnership with the IRS and help them not overpay
24:53 in taxes. And uh it’s a very very very specialized type of financial planning, but it’s a lot of fun. I enjoy it.
25:00 So, did you have to go back to school to do that?
25:02 Yeah. Well, well, I got my business degree, so I graduated college, got my business degree, but you you have to get, you know, I’m a certified financial planner. That requires a lot of work.
25:13 Yeah. And a just a crazy seven-hour exam. Seven hours. Oh, yeah. Brutal. Yeah. How many times did you take it?
25:20 Cried like a baby. Don’t ask. Oh. [laughter] Oh man. No, a couple times. You said you cried like a baby.
25:29 I remember when I passed it, I was like, “Oh, yeah.” Because it’s just you you just don’t want to fail.
25:36 I don’t know. That’s that’s I think that’s the one thing that is hard is uh like
25:44 uh having to try to live up to a standard when you’re an athlete like that to trying to equate trying to going back
25:52 into the real world and if you fail um how you deal with failure is really hard. uh I don’t deal with it very well
26:01 and um and those are things I’m I’ve been working on a lot but you know uh I think there’s like almost an addiction
26:09 to performance you know because in the NFL you can’t make mistakes and or otherwise it’ll cost your job you know
26:17 so um even in practice like it’s all about execution and you can’t hide from it because you got cameras on you
26:25 everywhere there’s no you can’t escape from the film and and uh and so there is
26:32 very little margin for error and and uh but you kind of carry a lot of that baggage and there’s a good side to it
26:39 and there’s a bad side to it but yeah failure man good it’s tough it’s tough yeah
26:47 yeah there’s been lots some lows man where I’ve dealt with some serious lows how’d you deal with them what advice can you give the people who are going to be
26:56 in your shoes or are currently in your shoes like Yeah. Um how how did you get through it?
27:02 Yeah. So, number one, like I I can’t
27:08 deny that faith has p played a huge factor.
27:14 And then me digging into that further and further and understanding that um you know that there is like I believe in
27:22 Jesus Christ. I believe God. I believe in the Holy Spirit. But um but I’ve really kind of
27:29 I I I went all in and uh it’s really helped me a lot because of those addictions to performance or you know
27:38 you’re afraid that people might found out all the failures you’ve had in your life or you know these they call it imposttor syndrome you know in terms of
27:47 the therapist uh but um just knowing that I have an anchor that Okay. Any situation that I’m
27:56 ever in, there is a way out. And uh and God will always provide that way. And if
28:02 you just kind of submit to that, there’s always a door that’s going to open that get you to, you know, where where that next level might be. I don’t know. I
28:11 don’t know if that makes sense, but for me, no, it does make sense. Um, I I have no other
28:17 uh no other way of understanding how where I was and where I’ve been.
28:24 So, do you think you still struggle a little bit sometimes or you think that you’re fully um Well, I’ll I’ll go back to this. So, you know, my last team was the 49ers.
28:35 And, you know, a lot of people think you’re, you know, you’re rich cuz you’re in the NFL. And, um, you know, I had a house in Pittsburgh.
28:45 Then I, uh, you know, had a very high shot of making the team with the 49ers.
28:52 So, I had a a condo in in the Silicon Valley and all that. And then I ended up getting cut and it was a big shock, but
29:02 we ended up running out of money. And um there was a point where we literally had no money. And I don’t
29:10 know if many people have ever felt that experience, but to the point where you have a bag of change and that’s it and you don’t know and and you’re trying to
29:20 live a life where everybody thinks you got something. And uh that was a that was a tough time where I thought, you know, crap, I’ll just maybe I can
29:29 disappear and you know, I’ll go to Mexico and play drums or something. And uh and my wife,
29:36 she’ll find somebody else. You know, it was a dark time because I was like, God, what am I going to do? And I was just
29:43 starting to get a hold of things about faith and, you know, walking with the Lord. And uh it was a tough time because
29:53 it’s one thing to have to adjust but when you don’t have money.
29:58 Um but there was just a couple things couple doors opened up and things started working out but you had to kind
30:05 of start over and uh that’s you know that was our reality.
30:09 But, you know, it worked out amazingly, you know, because um yeah, say if I’d be
30:16 here now, like, all glory to God.
30:21 Would you say you’re pretty happy with your life right now? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Got you got money in the bank. Got money in the bank. Chris needs a dollar.
30:29 Yep. Yep. [laughter] No. Um Yeah. I know, like I said, um rebounding like that and um yeah, what
30:38 what the Lord has done and like you said, just you know, we’re able to uh very fortunate in terms of all that
30:45 the Lord has done to kind of help us restore us and get us on the right track.
30:51 And and I’ll be honest with you, even even at that point in time, just the way all everything all worked out, it worked out. Um
31:01 it always does. Yeah, when you believe in God, it always does.
31:04 Can’t stop working and you just got to keep fighting. And um yeah, so if I can encourage anybody, you just don’t give up, man. Be dumb enough to believe and smart enough to execute.
31:15 And um you know, I’ve I’ve been in great positions where I’ve made way more money outside of the NFL than I did when I was in it.
31:23 I believe it. Yeah, I believe it, too. It’s true. Yeah, I believe it.
31:28 Do you think a lot of NFL players go through the same thing where they go completely broke?
31:32 Yeah. Yeah. There’s there’s been there’s a lot of tra tragic uh outcomes
31:39 just because of you know just either stupid decisions where you do business deals with the wrong people or you’re
31:46 trying to create something afterwards and you just don’t have all the experience and knowledge to to understand how to do it. But a lot of
31:53 guys Yeah. They just blow money left and right. Um, some guys, yeah, it’s just crazy.
31:59 You know, there’s a lot of guys that have run out of money. Bet. Probably unwilling to admit it.
32:05 [laughter]
32:07 Um, who was the hardest player you had ever had to block? Junior Seau. Yeah.
32:15 Yep.
32:16 Yep. He was a monster. And uh no matter how much he studied film and how
32:24 um much you thought, okay, he can handle this, he’s going to shoot an A gap or do something completely unorthodox and you could never take it for granted.
32:34 But I thought he was a phenomenal player and a tough opponent.
32:38 But that’s another guy again, CTE and you know committed suicide. Yeah. Sad. It is sad.
32:46 Yeah. and he was such a great leader. That’s sad.
32:49 Yeah. But we played them in the AFC Championship game. I played in that game and they ended up beating us sadly.
33:00 Chris over here, he’s a big uh football geek. So if you have any question, Jets fan, if if you got any questions for the guy himself, you you lay it out right now.
33:09 Oh, okay. Questions. All right. All right.
33:13 So, going to the NFL, like what were you the most nervous? What was that? What? What were you the most nervous any?
33:21 Oh, nervous. Uh, all right. So, this is the one fun nervous memory. So,
33:29 um, one time after practice with the Houston Oilers, it was like Lorenzo White and another guy named Drew Hill, and I don’t know,
33:38 they were talking smack. I said, “Oh, yeah. I’ll beat you guys in a 40-yard dash.” And this is starting running back and starting wide receiver. And so, uh,
33:47 you know, but me being fresh off the combine and, you know, I knew I knew my So, we ended up having a a race after
33:55 practice and I beat them both. And, uh, Jerry Glanville saw that and all the coaches are like, “Dang, man.” Next thing I know, I’m returning kicks uh,
34:04 for the Oilers and we’re playing the Cowboys. And I’ll never forget, so here we are in Texas
34:11 Stadium. And this is the old one. And I went I was a division 2 athlete and the biggest crowd we might have played in might have been 7,000 people. You know,
34:19 like here I am in a stadium filled with, you know, 50 60,000 people and they’re I’m getting ready for the opening
34:27 kickoff and I I look up and there is the first teleprompter I ever saw in my life or you know and I shake my leg and I’m
34:35 like, “Wait a minute, that’s me up there, man.” And I’ll never forget,
34:42 wow, I’m in the NFL. Like, holy mackerel. And they kicked the ball like into the five yards deep into the end zone. So, I think the relief for me is I
34:51 could just catch it and down the
34:52 [laughter]
34:54 So, I was nervous. I was like, “Oh, you didn’t have to run against one of those whistles.” Yeah. Yeah. You know, a couple times, man, they uh after a while, I was like,
35:02 “You know what? I got to figure I So, I caught one five yards deep, and I thought, I I’m running. I don’t care. I I got to try to find a way to prove myself. And I made it to about the 12 yard line. I’m like, shoot.
35:12 Yeah. My bad. Coach was p*****.
35:15 [laughter]
35:15 Yeah.
35:16 Has there been like a time that coach has said something to you that like really really really stuck with you?
35:22 Um, well, one time Bill Cowher told me to get my head out of my a**, but um,
35:28 [laughter]
35:30 no, I don’t mean No, I mean there those there are those moments where you know, Cowher always had
35:37 that uh, you know, that jaw. Everybody always kind of talked about that intensity level and you know, there are certain
35:44 ways that uh, but you know, there’s just it’s a very intense game. You got to always stay focused and
35:52 even if you’re uh a little bit off sometimes they’ll remind you and make sure you [laughter] But I thought that was funny actually.
36:02 My last pick. Who’s uh who’s your Dark Horse team for the Oh, the Dark Horse.
36:12 All right. I would say either the Houston Texans.
36:17 I’m a huge Bijan Robinson fan, too. I just I could watch him on YouTube
36:24 videos. Just the way he moves. Oh my gosh. And uh it’d be really cool to see the the Falcons, you know. I like
36:32 Bijan. But I I don’t know. The Houston I think the Houston Texans could be could shock people. Yeah.
36:40 Yeah. Yeah. We’ll see. And don’t leave don’t count Harbaugh out in San Diego.
36:45 We’ll see. Um, who’s winning the bull Super Bowl?
36:49 Yeah, Steelers.
36:52 No, [laughter] we’ll see. Um, yeah, I don’t know, man.
36:57 Um, I I couldn’t tell you, but Seattle was impressive last year and um, who knows?
37:05 I don’t count out Vrabel.
37:07 I mean, yeah, maybe there’ll be a miracle.
37:11 One last the Jets.
37:12 One last question to all all those folks who are conspiracy theorists saying the sports are rigged. What do you have to say to them?
37:21 Yeah. If if you were to, you know, you look at this two interceptions in that game that we played in the Super Bowl, I know a lot
37:28 of people like, “Wait a minute.” No, I but I I have never ever in my career um
37:35 have ever suspected that. And um I’ve always out there flying around, you know, who knows? But um you do like
37:44 before the season starts, I remember you would get like somebody like from the FBI or somebody like would
37:52 like you would get team briefings about, you know, things to watch out for. And uh so I I do remember stuff like that.
38:02 And we actually had a hotline like if I if I was going to get into some kind of business deal, you know, you could call somebody
38:11 they could like they could background check them for you and um so you know you hear stories man but I
38:19 personally have never been um faced with anything like that but I I have you know your buddies when you know you threw two
38:26 when there’s two interceptions for uh touchdowns people are going to go off into you know
38:34 thinking man it was rigged there’s sometimes I think about that too man not not that game. But I think about uh just
38:44 some of those calls the refs make. It’s insane.
38:49 Yeah. Saints and Yeah. Saints and Vikings when Favre was there and they’re blowing up Favre left and right. Well,
38:57 that that ended up being an issue that got exposed, I think. Right. Yeah.
39:03 Or they were paying like bounty or something. That’s crazy, man. You ever been on a team with a bounty coach? Nope. Nope.
39:11 You didn’t play for Sean Payton?
39:13 I I never Yeah. You know, I You know, I played against him in college, actually.
39:16 He was a quarterback for Eastern Illinois, and we Yeah, we played them. How’d that go?
39:21 I lit him up for 180 yards, couple touchdowns. Yeah. Yeah, man. There you go. Yeah.
39:29 Selfishly, I’ll give you my stats.
39:32 [laughter]
39:33 I was just uh I think a fresh, you know, red shirt freshman that year. But yeah, that’s when I was kind of establishing myself.
39:42 That’s pretty cool. How does a player become a coach?
39:45 Um, you know, you got to want it. I remember talking to my coach, Dick Hul, after I was done playing football
39:55 and I asked him, I go, “If you would if you could do it all over, would you do it again?” He goes, “Not now.” um I think the price is too high and you
40:04 have to put too much time in and the toll that it puts on your family and and when he said that to me that kind of for me it sealed the deal like all right yeah I I don’t think I want to go that
40:12 route I don’t I don’t want to you seem like you got a pretty good head on your shoulders.
40:17 Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been very fortunate man. I I I think one of the good things I did was listen to people um that got in my face whether they told
40:25 me to get my head out of my butt or you know don’t be an idiot, don’t be a padonna like those things meant a lot to
40:33 me. So I I enjoy I I respected the people that got in my face.
40:38 You know, nowadays you feel people are too soft. Like I had coaches, they’ll smack you upside the head if they had to back in the day,
40:47 but you just got to take it all in stride. Like they’re not, you know, I never ever felt like anybody was trying to hurt you. They’re trying to love you
40:55 and Yeah. Just get you to be better.
40:57 Yeah. Cuz a lot of kids are wild. We’re crazy, you know, and we come from crazy backgrounds. So, um,
41:04 you ever have to deal with like a Antonio Brown situation?
41:08 I’ve never had to deal, but yeah, that some of that stuff is crazy. I Well, you know what?
41:14 I remember I was with the 49ers when T.O. was a rookie and I loved him. I thought he was an awesome guy, man. Just a
41:22 really nice guy. But sometimes I think if you try to make your own persona like I remember Bill Cowher always saying if
41:30 you ever think you’ve arrived you’re on your first step out the door and that haunted me but some guys try to build up
41:39 their imagery and create a specific type of persona and then if you have to meet I don’t know it always seems like it doesn’t work out you know
41:48 elaborate on that. Well, like I said, some of those guys um bigs great athletes. I mean, great
41:56 productive players, but you know, I think they they just created more harmful like Le’Veon Bell probably be a
42:04 good example. And you know, I thought T.O. is a wonderful guy. Like I love the guy, but then he started kind of doing
42:11 his own thing and it just, you know, I think he still went to the Hall of Fame though, right?
42:18 I think was either recent or recent I think he is in the Hall of Fame.
42:25 Yeah. Did Ochocinco get there though when he wore that Hall of Fame jacket on the sideline? [laughter]
42:31 So no I I don’t know. I I just for me what’s that remember uh Chad Johnson? Chad Johnson.
42:39 Yeah he changed his last name. That’s that’s you think he changed it back.
42:43 He changed it. Yeah. I don’t know. Hey I love that guy though. I I thought he was a good guy. like Johnson.
42:49 Yeah, I did. Like all like but some of those guys just want to take it to different levels and then the media like I I remember again just learning so much
42:57 from Coach Cowher but you know he always said don’t try to screw around with the media. They’re always going to get the last word and nowadays
43:07 things can just snowball on you and then you have to try to maintain your pride might get in the way and
43:14 stuff like that. So, I just I grew up in an environment where coaches told you don’t do don’t screw
43:22 around with them and and you listen. They’re smart.
43:25 Yeah. I’m I’m Plus, I was trying to keep my job every year, so yeah. Well, we’re going to wrap this up, man.
43:31 It was an honor having you on. Do you have any last words for the camera?
43:35 Um, yeah. I like I said, um, I give all glory to God, number one, and, uh, don’t be afraid of your faith.
43:45 Don’t be afraid about what people think and if anything just try to pursue excellence without comparing yourself to
43:52 other people. Um because that’ll drive you absolutely crazy. But just go out there and like I said, be dumb enough to believe, smart enough to execute.
44:02 I like that. Be dumb enough to believe.
44:05 You meet my wife is like the one the best out of all 36 episodes. I’m going to use that in 5 years when I’m coaching a Pop Warner team.
44:14 Yeah. [laughter] Well, people look at my wife, they go, “How’d she marry you?” I go, “Be dumb enough to believe, smart enough to [laughter] chance of a girl like me and a guy like
44:22 you going up.” She said, “One in a million.” You’re telling me I got a chance. [laughter] Dumb and dumber.
44:30 Dumb and dumber. That’s so funny. Yeah.
44:34 Well, thank you for watching, guys. And Steve, thank you for coming on. Uh, if you guys didn’t know, he drove all the way out from Sarasota. So, we highly appreciate that, man. And uh we hope you guys have a good day.
Hustle & Heat is brought to you by Dubz BBQ, named Best BBQ Joint in Florida in 2026. Catch the next episode over smoked brisket and ribs, or stop by for happy hour, daily 2–6 PM and all day Thursday & Sunday.